Doug Gottlieb vs. Wichita State

DOUG GOTTLIEB vs. WICHITA STATE

A Twitter conversation between CBS Sports Analyst Doug Gottlieb and CreativeRHINO’s Ryan W. Gates – and the appropriateness of online personalities.

Ron Baker St. LouisDuring The Wichita State Shockers’ stunning defeat of Saint Louis (on the road), CBS analyst Doug Gottlieb made live TV comments regarding the Shockers explaining why they “weren’t really the 12th best team in the nation” despite their #12 ranking.  During this odd aside where he continually referred to WSU as the “Wheatshockers” and explained to the nation how WSU’s star player Ron Baker is from Iowa (he’s from Kansas); he ticked off a fair amount of Shocker Nation who had some things to say to him on Twitter where he refers to himself as a “CBS Personality – Tweets are meant to relate my snarky commentary on the world…nothing else.

Snarky indeed, but he did begin by apologizing for saying “Scott City, Iowa,” referring to Ron Baker as, “my boy,” and defending his referral to WSU as the Wheatshockers as an old school “tip of the cap.”  I poked a little fun at him and said:

 Ryan W. Gates ‏@RyanWGates
@GottliebShow @Brad_Hope @WuShocks Like how they sometimes call OSU “Oklahoma A&M College.” The “Aggies.” It’s a tip of the cap. #WATCHUS

Perhaps this little tweet was what got things rolling Monday after he published an article on CBSSports.com titled, “Are Shockers truly a Top 10 team?”  I (and other WSU fans) tweeted our thoughts and in return Doug Gottlieb went from snarky to unprofessional as he called fans “dumb,” mocked the city of Wichita, and then deleted all the tweets the following day in what appears to be 20/20 hindsight though he claims to not want to clog people’s timelines with things no one cares about…i.e. The Shockers.  Shocking?

DougGottliebRacistNot really shocking when you consider this is the same guy who said on live TV during last year’s Sweet 16 coverage (of the Shockers) that he was there to bring the “white man’s perspective” to the show, while sitting with 4 African American analysts.  While Gottlieb is often praised for his insight to the game as a former point guard, he stirs the pot quite frequently and seems to be no stranger to making enemies online and in the basketball world.  In 1995 he was the starting point guard for Notre Dame till he was charged with credit card fraud and stealing from his roommates.  He was expelled from Notre Dame and after a brief stint at Golden West College he ended up at Oklahoma State University where he had a stunning career as the starting point guard and led the Cowboys to 3 NCAA Tournament appearances including an Elite 8 appearance before graduating.  He is also famous for losing to Kansas University 67-66 in overtime during a game in which he accidentally wore his shorts backwards and thus the “Shorts On Backwards!” chant was born.

gottlieb4Doug’s usual enemy is Jim Boeheim of Syracuse for having what he believes is too soft of a non-conference schedule to be a power basketball school, though a little time reading his posts and publications and it is obvious he’s overly biased to his OSU Cowboys and therefore unable to provide impartial analysis.  Much like the botched cover up of his Notre Dame expulsion, his sudden departure from ESPN to CBS Sports is suspect.  So, as his beloved OSU Cowboys were upset by Memphis the same day he was calling the Wichita State game, he decided to rant on TV during the game as to why the Shockers aren’t really the 12th best team in the nation due to “perception.”  The following is my (and others) conversation with Doug on Twitter following his CBS Sports article, most of this conversation was deleted by Doug the following day:

  • Eye on College BBall ‏@EyeOnCBB
  • Ryan W. Gates ‏@RyanWGates
    • @EyeOnCBB @GottliebShow Yes, Wichita State is…and I see Oklahoma State is 11. We win whether we’re ranked or not. #watchus #playangry
  • Doug Gottlieb ‏@GottliebShow
    • @RyanWGates @EyeOnCNN Oklahoma State is much better than Wichita,it is not because I’m an alum,it is because it is true-
  • Ryan W. Gates ‏@RyanWGates
    • @GottliebShow @EyeOnCBB Guess we’ll never know because programs like OSU and KU are too chicken to play WSU. That’s the truth. #WatchUs
  • Anne Marie Seiler ‏@Musicats7820h
    • “@RyanWGates: @GottliebShow says,”Oklahoma State is much better than Wichita,it is not because I’m an alum,it is because it is true-” #Weak
  • Ryan W. Gates ‏@RyanWGates
    • @GottliebShow WSU Final Fours since the 60’s? 1. OSU Final Fours since the 50’s? 2. Shouldn’t we both be happy to be ranked?
  • Doug Gottlieb ‏@GottliebShow
    • @RyanWGates huh? Are we comparing programs or teams? Teams this year…Debate able – programs? Not debatable
  • Ryan W. Gates ‏@RyanWGates
    • @GottliebShow What’s your argument why OSU is better? Other than saying its “true.” Could you look at OSU with as much criticism? #WatchUs
  • Doug Gottlieb ‏@GottliebShow
    • @RyanWGates OKState is deeper,shoot it better,have more scoring,and one of the best players in college basketball-other than that…
  • Ryan W. Gates ‏@RyanWGates
    • @GottliebShow …other than that put them on a court together and see. Like Gonzaga and Ohio State had to. That’s why they play the games.
  • Doug Gottlieb ‏@GottliebShow
    • @RyanWGates they were great-they made 10 3s vs Zags-hadn’t done that in 10 years-
  • Ryan W. Gates ‏@RyanWGates
    • @GottliebShow it’s called rising to the occasion. You put us against a “better” opponent and we rise up. It’s what champions do.
  • Kellen Marshall ‏@KelMoney24
    • @GottliebShow @RyanWGates You’re forgetting an important element, DUG. Coaching. Advantage- Shockers. Cotton shuts down Smart.
  • Ryan W. Gates ‏@RyanWGates
    • @KelMoney24 @GottliebShow Yup, we’ve seen a lot of “great players” and we wrap em up in 100% Cotton! #WatchUs #MyState #ShockerNation
  • Evan Fahrbach ‏@EvanFahrbach
    • @GottliebShow @RyanWGates I love both schools.. But it wasn’t even close from what I experienced. WSU >>OSU
  • Ryan W. Gates ‏@RyanWGates
    • @EvanFahrbach @GottliebShow Last year was pretty astounding, but it’s the culmination of a 7 year progression. Gregg Marshall is amazing.
  • Evan Fahrbach ‏@EvanFahrbach
    • @RyanWGates @GottliebShow agreed. Would be saying the same thing without the Final Four run. WSU is a better basketball school, IMO.
  • Ryan W. Gates ‏@RyanWGates
    • @EvanFahrbach @GottliebShow There you go…finally a real report from an insider without bias. Doug, you’re too close to this one.
  • Doug Gottlieb ‏@GottliebShow
    • @EvanFahrbach @RyanWGates comical-better fans filling Koch? Sure- there isn’t football and a much bigger pool of people, nothing to do
  • Ryan W. Gates ‏@RyanWGates
    • @GottliebShow @EvanFahrbach So now you’re saying Wichita is a boring town with nothing to do? That’ll go over well with #ShockerNation
  • Dillon Noller ‏@passwordistaco2
    • @GottliebShow @EvanFahrbach @RyanWGates somebody struck a nerve.. Gottlieb attacking the city of Wichita right now
  • Doug Gottlieb ‏@GottliebShow
    • @RyanWGates @EvanFahrbach Is there an NBA team in Wichita? Do they have a top 10 CFB team- are you really this dumb?
  • Ryan W. Gates ‏@RyanWGates
    • @GottliebShow @EvanFahrbach Whoa! Let’s not go calling people dumb. I was enjoying this conversation. You’re the one lashing out at a city.
  • Evan Fahrbach ‏@EvanFahrbach
    • @GottliebShow @RyanWGates What is the argument..? Yes. A million more excuses for why Okstate attendance is worse. I 100% agree with you..
  • Ryan W. Gates ‏@RyanWGates
    • @GottliebShow @EvanFahrbach We did have football till the team was tragically killed in a plane crash in 1970. #watchus
  • Doug Gottlieb ‏@GottliebShow
    • @RyanWGates @EvanFahrbach @colewhirled no I’m not calling u dumb if you can’t understand the difference in dynamics of OSU vs WSU
  • Ryan W. Gates ‏@RyanWGates
    • @GottliebShow @colewhirled No, you’re calling me (and others) dumb for disagreeing with your opinion. It’s unprofessional. #WatchUs
  • Derek Pruett ‏@DPruett2333
    • @GottliebShow @RyanWGates Funny you forgot to mention a little thing called DEFENSE, which the Shockers lead in every major category…
  • Ryan W. Gates ‏@RyanWGates
    • @GottliebShow Thanks for the fun conversation. See you online, TV, or next time you’re in Wichita drinks are on me. Cheers.
  • Doug Gottlieb ‏@GottliebShow
    • @RyanWGates sounds good—

End of conversation Monday night around Midnight.  Then Tuesday morning I got dragged back in:

  • Bill Young ‏@goshox01
    • @colewhirled @GottliebShow @RyanWGates objective? He said Fvv can’t penetrate dude? If u think that too have to ask if u use ur tickets
  • Doug Gottlieb ‏@GottliebShow
    • @goshox01 @RyanWGates @colewhirled IMHO he doesn’t have the burst to break down a high level defender—like Sunday—
  • Bill Young ‏@goshox01
    • @colewhirled @GottliebShow @RyanWGates u simply can’t believe that Fvv can’t dribble drive, if u do u just haven’t seen enough games ths yr
  • Doug Gottlieb ‏@GottliebShow
    • @goshox01 @RyanWGates @colewhirled U don’t have to agree w/my educated opinion, but u would be incorrect—I never said he can’t penetrate
  • Bill Young ‏@goshox01
    • @GottliebShow @colewhirled @RyanWGates like how he split the two defenders right as u were saying that and hit Cle for nail in coffin
  • Doug Gottlieb ‏@GottliebShow
    • @goshox01 @RyanWGates @colewhirled that is breaking a press-I wish u understood basketball,real difficult conversation
  • Bill Young ‏@goshox01
    • @colewhirled @GottliebShow @RyanWGates u can’t dribble drive if they are hedging the screen and fouling ur ass and throwing u off
  • Doug Gottlieb ‏@GottliebShow
    • @goshox01 @RyanWGates @colewhirled true,and couldn’t get a step on straight up man—good player,big shot maker,not an elite athlete
  • Kalon Fullerton ‏@CowlonFullerton
    • @GottliebShow @RyanWGates @EvanFahrbach what does Stillwater have besides Eskimo Joe’s???
  • Doug Gottlieb ‏@GottliebShow
    • @CowlonFullerton @RyanWGates @EvanFahrbach 1-Football 2-School draws from OKC/Tulsa for fans-market has shifted #ThunderUp
  • Kalon Fullerton ‏@CowlonFullerton
    • @GottliebShow @RyanWGates @EvanFahrbach Does the football team play at the same time as the basketball team every game?
  • Doug Gottlieb ‏@GottliebShow
    • @CowlonFullerton @RyanWGates @EvanFahrbach Tweeting about things u know nothing about–stop embarrassing yourselves
  • Ryan W. Gates ‏@RyanWGates
    • @GottliebShow @CowlonFullerton @EvanFahrbach Embarrassing is you deleting your tweets today after realizing you attacked a city. #WatchUs
  • Doug Gottlieb ‏@GottliebShow
    • @RyanWGates @CowlonFullerton @EvanFahrbach I deleted tweets because no one cares, so I don’t clog their timeline
  • Ryan W. Gates ‏@RyanWGates
    • @GottliebShow #ShockerNation cares. Really looks like you deleted tweets that made you look bad for attacking a city & fan base.
  • Shawn Bradley ‏@SBPortraits
    • @GottliebShow @RyanWGates @EvanFahrbach even osu alums agree wsu is a better bb envirorment and team! Ha, Doug just can’t stand that #truth
  • Ryan W. Gates ‏@RyanWGates
    • @GottliebShow Being self proclaimed snarky is fine but you should stand by what you say…or don’t say it. #WatchUs defend #MySTATE
  • Doug Gottlieb ‏@GottliebShow
    • @SBPortraits @RyanWGates @EvanFahrbach what is this some “Environment” battle? Dumbest subjective argument ever
  • Ryan W. Gates ‏@RyanWGates
    • @GottliebShow @SBPortraits @EvanFahrbach So you don’t believe in home court advantage? Maybe that’s why Memphis did so well. #WatchUs
  • Doug Gottlieb ‏@GottliebShow
    • @RyanWGates what exactly did I say? That an analytical article is made into something it is not?
  • Ryan W. Gates ‏@RyanWGates
    • @GottliebShow You made arguments sans fact, argued your opinion then said opinion doesn’t count, and insulted the city of Wichita. #WatchUs
  • Ryan W. Gates ‏@RyanWGates
    • @GottliebShow The article was the spark for the conversation – you set yourself on fire with your tweets to fans. #WatchUs #MySTATE
  • Doug Gottlieb ‏@GottliebShow
    • @RyanWGates there are like 5 guys who are tweeting me,they all call Wichita home…get some perspective or unfollow
  • Ryan W. Gates ‏@RyanWGates
    • @GottliebShow I have perspective, I’m a fan, specifically a @GoShockers @WichitaState fan. What, you thought we’d like your post? #WatchUs
  • Doug Gottlieb ‏@GottliebShow
    • @RyanWGates but comparing OK State/Wichita State hoops over last 30 years is apples/Oranges —
  • Ryan W. Gates ‏@RyanWGates
    • @GottliebShow I can agree to that. OSU/WSU is apples/oranges. So let’s get you on board with the whole WSU is a top 10 team. #WatchUs

That was where the conversation ended after the second day.  I guess Doug just wanted his OSU Cowboys put in a different category than my WSU Shockers…his category being orange of course.  Truthfully, I don’t have a grievance with him and as Managing Partner of Wichita’s most iconic sports bar I would love to have Doug Gottlieb as my guest if he was ever in Wichita and I would honor my promise to buy the rounds of drinks and continue the conversation.  twitter-to-dump-third-party-image-hosts-from-apps-report-692a5ff817I love heated debate…its the best kind of debate!  However, I was surprised by the gall in his language and the choice of words he used to make his arguments to his followers.  This all comes back to the conversation we’ve had here at CreativeRHINO.com and to my students about understanding the ramifications of making statements publicly online and how extra public they are when they are made via social media.  Everyone’s Mike Tyson with a keyboard and a monitor, people’s filters to say what’s appropriate goes out the window and they feel they can take on anyone…say anything.  In this virtual world we live in, social media is teaching us to be antisocial.  Instead of real social interactions publicly we have digital interactions privately in massively public forums.  In Doug Gottlieb’s case, he gets to be the snarky sports commentator personality.  Stephen Colbert has the best approach to it where he gets to act like an idiot publicly with a not-so-secret understanding that he’s actually the complete opposite in real life.  If you’ve ever been to a live taping of his show you may have seen him come out and apologize in advance and remind the audience that this is comedy.  Doug Gottlieb does not…and its not funny.  Many of his self-proclaimed snarky comments are actually just rude, inappropriate, and downright unprofessional.  He doesn’t give us his redeeming elements.

doug-gottliebI don’t know what Doug Gottlieb is like in real life but he’s led his public to believe he’s not a very nice person.  One would hope he’s a good family man, a good person, and that this snarky commentary is part of his act to get attention and be in the spotlight.  However, once you are in the spotlight there are expectations to behave in a certain way.  If you write an article saying WSU isn’t the 12th best team in the nation you can’t be surprised when WSU fans write back and argue otherwise…its why they are called “fans.”  What is surprising is that a man in the spotlight with so much to lose would take moments like the above conversation and call people “dumb,” mock fans for disagreeing with him, and lash out at a city in an unprofessional manner.  I do hope Doug Gottlieb comes to Wichita and I get the opportunity to see what he is really like.  In all honesty, I think I might be disappointed if he ended up being a nice guy who always said the appropriate thing.  It doesn’t fit the image he has painted and it is much more fun to poke holes in his arguments when he leaves the door open with debate rationale akin to a teenager’s, “Nu uh!”

So from dumb ole Wichita where there’s nothing to do, remember to think before you type and make sure the personality you convey online is the one you’d convey in person.  If you aren’t sure what personality you want to convey online…unplug and go socialize with people in person for a while.

To follow Doug Gottlieb on Twitter go to @GottliebShow and click follow.  He can be snarky at times but is full of lots of fun topics that start conversations like the one in this article.  To follow Ryan W. Gates on Twitter go to @RyanWGates and click follow.  Its not anywhere near as interesting and full of posts about the Shockers, the Chiefs, and why I think Cox Cable should refund me when OnDemand stops working.  Follow CreativeRHINO at @CreativeRHINO and be sure to remember that this article is for entertainment purposes.  Have fun out there, unplug as often as possible, and keep on living the digital nomadic life.

Ryan W. Gates, CreativeRHINO Founder

Doug Gottlieb providing the "white man's perspective."

Doug Gottlieb providing the “white man’s perspective.”

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3 comments

  1. Charles patrick · December 4, 2013

    Pretty good stuff, I like DG and truthfully I don’t think he said anything out of line bout WSU, but boy his skin be very thin

    • CreativeRHINO · December 4, 2013

      Thanks for commenting Charles. Doug Gottlieb wrote his opinion in that article and I agree that he’s not out of line about WSU (though I disagree with his opinion), but I question the tone in his tweets. Unfortunately I can only retrieve the tweets to/from me so the ones he deleted where he was offensive to others I don’t have unless those people share them too. Doug is confusing the word “snarky” with “derogatory.” Snarky means to be sarcastic in an irreverent tone, not saying things that are hurtful to others – which he was on Monday night.

  2. Gary · February 27, 2014

    He’s a BCS sociopath and an all around bad seed. The guy believes his own stupid smack and that is pathetic.

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